Frain Family Tree - Illinois Branch

Frain Research by Godfrey Duffy

Godfrey Duffy contacted me via my web site. He was researching the Frain family for his friend Matty Frain when he found it. He believed there was a connection between our families and offered information he gathered to support his position.  Some of the information was new and welcome input to my genealogy.  It also puts place and names of localities in context.

Rather than try to interpret what he sent, I will print all or part of his e-mails and documents.  I won't put in some of the extensive replies I sent him to support my position and to provide my own interpretation of his data.  In this way you can form any association you wish. For my part, and that is how I left it with Godfrey, I choose to rely on the family version of my family ties back to County Mayo, Ireland. Godfrey's version has merit, however, I did not consider it conclusive. One point would have convinced me and that had to do with the 1861 census where Owen Frain was residing with Luke Frain and Mary Sweeney soon after their marriage. He was listed as a boarder. If he would have been listed as Luke's brother then I would have to believe my family version was flawed. The listing of family members in a household by relationship is and was a common practice. Godfrey believes they were brothers based upon the 1851 census where there was a Luke and Owen Frain in the same household.

7/31/06
Dear Joe,
 I came across your website as I'm researching Frain ancestry for a mate of mine - Matty Frain. Briefly Matty's grandfather, James Frain was born in Co.Roscommon c.1840 and came to Co.Durham in the late 1850s. James's father was Matthias Frain born in Co.Roscommon c.1812. His wife was Bridget. I am guessing they came as a family as I found James Frain[age 20] and I believe a sister Bridget[age 15] on the 1861 census at Whitworth, Co.Durham. It seems Matthias married again[to Catherine Donnelly herself a widow of Edward Donnelly. She was born Catherine O'Flaherty c.1826] in 1862 at St.Cuthberts RC church in Durham city. Naturally I noted down all Frains I located including yours. What relation are you to Luke Frain ? As well as the 1881 census I located them on 1861 census[see attached]. I was reared in Co.Durham and I'm very familiar with the places you noted. Luke Frain married at Our Blessed Lady & St.Cuthbert's RC church in Brooms village near Leadgate. The church is old for an RC church and dates back to 1800. My great grandparents from Ireland married there also. If I can help with your research let me know ? Equally if you discover any info on the Frain line I'm researching let me know ?
best regards,
Godfrey Duffy

8/1/07
Hi Joe,
I was researching Frains again today and came across a family on the 1851 census in Newcastle upon Tyne which I have a hunch is yours. You can see that Luke's mother is Mary, a widow and he has a brother called Owen who was recorded on the 1861 census which I sent you.
best regards,
Godfrey Duffy

8/1/06
Hi Joe,
Thanks for your email - marvelous technology. I started researching my Irish ancestors 20 years ago and in those days I had to wait for weeks in reply to a letter. It's a pity you are not visiting Co.Durham as I was brought up there and could show you around. I now live in Newcastle upon Tyne - Spittal Tongues is a suburb of Newcastle where Luke was in 1851. There is an old pub there called 'The Spittal' - I used to drink there. I wonder if the Frains drank there ? I know what you mean about the ages but after years of experience you know at once when you've found the right family. I've no doubt that the Frains I found on the census returns are the same family. Also there was a Jeremiah Frayne[resident Leadgate],father Patrick Frayne. Jeremiah married Jane Lambert on 13 Aug 1861 at the same church as Luke. The civil marriage recorded Jeremiah as 'Darby' and I have no doubt this was Luke's brother on the 1851 census. Also as Luke's mom was a widow I think it very probable Patrick died in Newcastle. I can check for you. I have 'Ancestry.Com' which allows me to search all the English census returns. It is not always accurate as it was transcribed by American convicts. So I have to allow for surname and place spelling variations. In theory Luke should be in Co.Durham on the 1871 census but I haven't found him yet. I did some research a few years back for an American guy who lived in Texas. Like you he had Irish ancestors who came to Co.Durham and then emigrated to US. I'm going to bed soon - it's 11pm here.
regards,
Godfrey

8/6/06
Hi Joe,
Just got in from drive out in the country with my girlfriend. Once again it's quite late 11.40 pm here. So I'll make this brief but send you a more detailed email later. I think your theory about Ballaghadereen is probably correct and Luke is not such a common first name. I lived in London some years ago and had a flat mate from there. I would like to get access to the surname index for the tithe applotment books to check which parishes the Frains were located in the 1820s. All I need to do is find a Matthias or Michael Frain and then check the RC parish registers. As I said I am helping my friend here with Frain ancestors who wants to claim Irish citizenship via his grandfather. I shall check all sites you mentioned. best regards,
Godfrey

8/7/06 Hi Joe, Thanks for your email. I'll answer your questions first - 1. Lanchester is both a town and a parish and Brooms is within Lanchester parish. 2. Brooms is a hamlet and it's centre is the old Catholic church. Before 1857 it served the iron works town of Consett and Leadgate.  Due to the massive Irish influx to Consett a Catholic church was built in Consett in 1857. I wrote an article on the subject that was published by the Clogher Record in Ireland. 3. 1861 census Mary McCormack occupation was 'travels with a basket' . Sounds like she is a Hawker selling produce from her basket. Could be anything. 1851 census Martin, Darby and Luke Frain's occupations were ' Pit Lads'. Pit Lads were not skilled coal miners such as Hewers. They might not even have been working below the surface but could have had surface jobs such as sifting the shale from the coal or laboring in what ever was necessary. If a pit lad worked under the surface he could be a ' trapper' ie. opening and shutting the door to let the air circulate or a 'putter' ie. he pushed the coal wagons led by pit ponies.My own great grandfather went down the pit at 13 years in 1868. It is no trouble going to DRO as I'm going there to research for my friend Matty Frain. As I said if I locate the baptism records of Luke's children the Godparents could be relations? It would be nice to meet you in October but a trip to London is beyond my budget and as for US - well. If you came to Newcastle I could meet you and arrange for Matty to meet you also. It's only 3 hours on the train. It would be nice to hear from you any way. My phone number is Newcastle upon Tyne 2221422. Attached 1871 census located Owen Frain. regards, Godfrey PS. My book ' Tracing Your Donegal Ancestors' was published in 1996. You can see it on net.

8/8/06
Hi Joe,
I've now had time to digest the info in your website and know who's who. You'll be pleased to know I located your grandfather Luke on the 1891 census[see attached]. I also found Mary Foy on the 1881 census incorrectly recorded as the daughter of John & Bridget Foy and of course she is the daughter in law and wife of Michael Foy who is also in the house. I presume you have this record ? I could not locate Michael & Mary Foy on the 1891 census - so I presume they emigrated 1881-1891 ? I presume Luke Frain emigrated 1891-1895 ? I've booked an appointment at DRO for next week. So no doubt I'll have more to report after that? When you send me emails can you refrain[no pun intended] from using Tower Bridge as a background as I found it difficult to read as some words were absorbed in the background. regards,
Godfrey

8/9/06
Hi Joe,
You can say whew again but I think I've absorbed all your email ? What a tragic tale about Michael Foy. I understood from your website to paraphrase ' it appears the whole family may not have moved at the same time .. John, Martin and Patrick went on HMS Berlin in July 1886 ... no other family members listed.' ' Did the father Luke, wife Mary, brother Luke and sister Mary take earlier boat ?' I understood from this that you did not have an emigation date for Luke, Mary and children Luke and Mary but now you say they also emigrated in 1886 ? What was the ship's name ? Whoever the Luke Frain is on the 1891 census in Co.Durham I feel sure he is related to your Frains ? If the census info is correct he was born c.1854 in Co.Durham, place unknown ? We have now passed our mini heatwave here. It was 29 C a week ago but is now a pleasant 20 C.
best regards,
Godfrey

8/9/06
Hi Joe,
Forgot to say I still think Frain family I located on 1851 census in 'Spittal Tongues' is yours. It is too much of a co-incidence that a Luke and a Darby Frain both with fathers called Patrick should get married in same RC church within a couple of years of each other ? Also Luke called one son Martin and in 1851 he has brother Martin and Derby. On my DRO visit I'll check more thoroughly now I know who your Frains are.
Godfrey

08/11/06 Hi Joe, Just a short reply to your long email. I pay no heed to ages on census returns as through my extensive research experience I've found the same ancestor's age was different on every census return even if they were supplying the info themselves. I know of the Irish naming practice but it wasn't strictly followed. Over here the priest had written down that my ancestor came from 'Belone' Co.Louth but it turned out to be 'Ballyowen'. I would like to find Luke & co on the 1871 census which could provide more info. I feel sure they must be in Co.Durham. There must have been a transcription error on 'Ancestry.com'. I'm booked in DRO for next Wednesday and I'm sure I'll find the baptism records for all of Luke's children.
Godfrey

8/12/06 Hi Joe, Just a short email as it's 10.15 pm here and I'm off to bed soon. Next week at the DRO I'm looking for the baptism records of Luke's children not the birth records. As I said I'm sure some of the Godparents will be relations of Luke. If Owen Frain is one will that convince you they were brothers ? I will have a copy made of Luke's parochial marriage record and the baptism record of his son Luke. Please send me your address and I can send them on to you. As Luke would have provided the information at his wedding as to who his father was I think we must assume that Luke was correct and his father was Patrick ? Is it not a case of finding the Irish baptism of Luke with father Patrick ? Godfrey

8/17/06 Hi Joe, Good results yesterday at DRO with regard to your Frain ancestry. Our Blessed Lady & St.Cuthbert's RC, Brooms village, Co.Durham Baptism records[translated from Latin] born 13 May 1859, bapt 05 June 1859, John Frayne son of Luke Frayne & Mary Sweeney. Godparents Thomas & Sarah Brady. born 15 August 1860, bapt 18 August 1860, Mary Frayne daughter of Luke Frayne & Mary Sweeney. Godparents Patrick Hoy & Frances Hewitt. St.Charles's RC, Tudhoe village, Co.Durham Baptism records born 21 May 1862, bapt 29 June 1862, Martin Frain son of David Frain* & Jane Lambert. Godparents Ann Ward. * I believe this to be Darby Frain, brother of Luke. I located the death of Darby Frain 1863 in GRO index. I sent details to Registry Office and they confirmed they were correct. I don't know if you are interested in the death certificate ? It is 7 sterling. born 13 August 1863, bapt 06 September 1863, Luke Frain son of Luke Frain & Mary Sweeney. Godparents Owen Frain & Sarah Queenan. * I made a photocopy of Luke's baptism as he was your grandfather. I also made copy of his father's marriage record at Brooms. I can send these to you when you send me your address ? born 31 October 1865, bapt 12 November 1865, Martin Frayne son of Luke Frayne & Mary Sweeney. Godparents Thomas & Catherine Hunt. NB.must have died in infancy see later baptism. born 12 January 1868, bapt 19 January 1868, Patrick Frayne son of Luke Frayne & Mary Sweeney. Godparents Patrick Ryan & Mary Gorman. Our Lady Immaculate & St.Cuthbert's RC, Crook town, Co.Durham born 31 October 1870, bapt 13 November 1870, Martin Frain son of Luke Frain & Mary Gallagher[priest's error?] Godparents Thomas Roach & Mary Nigley. born 28 May 1874, bapt 14 June 1874, Catherine Frain daughter of Luke Frain & Mary Sweeney. Godparents William Proctor & Margaret Riley. Died in infancy ? regards,
Godfrey

8/18/06 Hi Joe, I'm glad you got my email - I was getting concerned it had been lost in the cosmos. Now that you have all the accurate information from the parish registers you'll be able to update your website ? On a point of detail The Frains were actually living in Sunnybrow on the 1881 census which is within the registration district of Helmington Row. Queenstown was a name used by the British for Cobh. Cobh is a town just outside of Cork. One of the witnesses to Luke's wedding was Margaret O'Brian. I look forward to hearing from you. Let me know about the photocopies I had made for you ?
Godfrey

8/22/06 Hi Joe, Thanks for your detailed reply - I am like yourself a stickler for facts and I always try to verify things through evidence although as you say this isn't always possible! Having said that as a researcher and writer of 20 years specialising in Irish ancestry I can tell you that you get an instinct about things and recognise intuitively when you have found the relevant ancestors. I thought I'd clarify a few things for you. The entry in the Brooms RC marriage register is ' Jeremiah ' as this was a recognised Christian name ipso facto Catholic name.' Darby' is a non Christain Irish name and would not have been used in the RC registers. Thus we have the later baptism entry at Thornley RC of 'David' an acceptable Christian name as opposed to 'Darby'. I know it's 'Darby' as David's wife is Jane Lambert who is recorded as marrying 'Jeremiah Frayne'. I bet you if you found the baptism record in Ireland of 'Darby' it would not be written as 'Darby'. I hope that's clear ? Another example I've encountered is 'Brian' which is a non Christian Irish name and appears in RC registers both here and in Ireland as 'Bernard' which is a Christian name. Even though a person may be recorded on the census as eg. Brian O'Hara you can bet their baptism record will be Bernard O'Hara. As regards the spelling of Frain. In the 19th century surname spelling wasn't standardised and often the bearer of the surname could not write it and may not have seen it written down? The information on your ancestry was written by priests and census enumerators so it would differ. Some priests being Irish or being familiar with Irish surnames may have been more accurate ? I think the priest made an error writing down Gallagher instead of Sweeney as it is Sweeney in the other entries. I don't think the priest made an error with Luke and Darby Frain's fathers' names and I think Patrick is correct, especially as they were brothers. If you don't want the photocopies I obtained that is up to you - it is no real expense and I thought you'd like photocopies of original 19th century documents ? I have just received from the NAI(Dublin) a photocopy of the 'Surname index from Griffith's Valuation & the Tithe Applotment Books' for 'Frain' for Co.Roscommon. This has enabled me to pin down the parishes where Matty's Frain ancestors were in 1832. Godfrey

Return to Sources to see scanned English census documents, provided by Godfrey.